Feb, 12
Development continues

As you might have noticed, not much was going on here in December and January. Indeed, I took a two month break from working on KeeperRL. This was planned well in advance, but I feel I didn’t announce it loudly enough, and some players were confused and worried. Sorry for that. But now I’m back! And the development of KeeperRL continues under full steam.

I had some time to think about the future of the game, and decided that it’s the right time to move forward with a major feature that I’ve been planning for over one year: the campaign mode. I call it that, but the idea is actually a little bit different from campaigns found in similar games. You’ll get a first taste of it in Alpha18, but here’s a short summary:

  • You’ll be building one base throughout the whole campaign.
  • There will be an overworld map with locations that you can ‘zoom’ into. Each location will be a separate map the size of about 1/4 of current maps (area-wise).
  • You’ll be able to travel to any location while controlling a team of minions, but your base will be limited to your starting location.
  • Every major enemy will occupy a separate location. Of course you’ll be free to take your minions and fight the enemies, and they will attack you back.
  • The enemies will include bases built by other players and shared via the server, with their inhabitants controlled by AI.
  • Not everything out there will be hostile. Trading and alliances are planned.

The purpose of the campaign mode is to increase the length of play, and to include more player-generated content in the game. I know you guys build better dungeons than my proc-generation!

Later on I will announce another major feature, and altogether it should move the game to completely new grounds. In any case, it will be material for versions Alpha19 and later. I’m sure you’ll be very excited to see all of this. I am!

Now off to work! I hope you guys have some patience before I can come up with Alpha18 🙂

COMMENTS

Home Forums Development continues

Viewing 15 posts - 16 through 30 (of 35 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • #4715
    owen
    Participant

    Hi,

    I need to say that if you decide your campaign mode is achievable, I’d still like to help.

    In fact, I am offering to make you a selection of 1/4 size dungeons that you can install with alpha 18. You would find this especially helpful if you are unable to convert any of the alpha 17 dungeons cropped to the right size.

    This is a good idea if there are going to have prefabricated dungeons. The developers of Xenonauts, an XCOM-like, had the controversial idea to use prefab maps instead of randomly generated ones, but I think it’s a good idea. Handmade dungeons are always going to look more interesting than automatically generated ones (although there’s no reason why you can’t have a mix of both), and it’s easy for the community to step up to make more maps.

    I suggested a rating system for dungeons, but why not have someone who is willing to make the maps do it himself? It’s one less thing to program, and you’ll probably get better dungeons in the end.

    #4717
    owen
    Participant

    On tactics:

    Currently, battles don’t involve much more than dancing your keeper back and forth while minions bash each other over the head (or shoot arrows, if they’re clever). I mean, it’s fun for a while, but it really doesn’t offer the sort of tactical game play that XCOM or even Final Fantasy might. Basically, you just use your spells and items to keep the keeper alive and hope that you have a big enough army. If SHTF, then run your keeper back to the dungeon where your traps can kill inordinately large numbers of enemies.

    Well, that begs the question, how can this game be more tactically interesting? I guarantee you that simply marching around an ever-increasing death ball of orcs and ogres while it auto-attacks the enemy will not make for an exciting game.

    • In a game that has potentially dozens of units per side and battles that proceed for hundreds of turns, I don’t think it’s reasonable to expect the player to micromanage every single unit like he would in XCOM or Final Fantasy. A corollary of this statement is that it shouldn’t be possible for the player to gain a (significant) advantage through micromanagement of this sort. Single-player games that can be exploited through tedious micromanagement are the worst; it feels bad to win (because it’s boring) and it feels bad to lose (because you know you could have won if you’d just done more repetitive actions). They’re entirely antithetical to a game like chess, where you get one move, and the skill is in finding the best move.
    • Many units have item slots, and this mechanism could be exploited to increase the strategy in the game. Units could also be given preset behaviours, or skills. Essentially, the tactical decision would come down to pre-equipping your band with a certain item combination, and then dancing your keeper (or other team leader) around while your team fights it out.
    • Perhaps giving orders as a team leader, and the reliability with which orders are heeded could be a game mechanic in itself. For example, the team leader might have a general “give order” ability, which might have a cooldown of 10-20 turns (just so that you can’t spam-micromanage orders) and costs one turn to execute. By casting this ability on to a unit within visual range of the team leader, and then selecting the particular details of the order (which are dependent upon the combination of team-leader and team-member), there is some method of minion control given to the player.
    #4719
    Keeperman
    Participant

    Campaign size. Dimensions of the oveworld map could be adjusted after developing it.

    #4721
    Keeperman
    Participant

    Permadeath. dont send your keeper on invasions!

    #4723
    Keeperman
    Participant

    Attacked on a map you aren’t currently playing.

    Complex and tricky. For alpha18 AIs and players might have to take it in turns to attack squares on the overworld.

    This means AI cant interupt until an invasion has ended. Then it is the other forces who attack while you must defend. It is their turn. etc.

    #4725
    Keeperman
    Participant

    Alpha 18 map making volunteers. There would be plenty. You may find it hard to unit test Alpha 18 without some keeper maps that you can invade. In Alpha 17 you can only invade them with adventurers. It will be a new thing.

    #4727
    owen
    Participant

    On strategy:

    • – Currently, minions in production facilities spit out random weapons, charms, and spells. I wonder if it would be more strategically interesting if this were further refined. As there are going to be many more villains to conquer, perhaps individual items could only be created after conquering a quadrant of the map. For example, the recipe for a sleeping potion could be won after a dwarf colony is conquered. The same system could be extended to weaponry, charms, traps, and even to skills that are taught to beasts. The idea is that certain major villains would either be more susceptible or resilient to certain technologies, and your current production abilities would influence your plan of attack.
    • – Similarly, the same system could work for hiring minions. You can only hire minions from tribes whom you discover on your quests. This limits your tactical options on each play-through, forcing you to think on your feet.
    #4729
    Keeperman
    Participant

    Unlocking potions, weapons and traps.

    Would need a technology for each recipe and design.

    Also would need to block research in the library until you actually find the books that exist on the map/campaign.

    #4731
    Keeperman
    Participant

    Unlocking minions.

    Maybe in Alpha19 campaigns?

    #4733
    Keeperman
    Participant

    Combat tactics.

    Yes, the AI of my team could be a problem. They may have a tendency to go running off into traps. Traps need to be taken out using magic (or recruiting bandits;)

    #4735
    owen
    Participant

    Attacked on a map you aren’t currently playing.

    Complex and tricky. For alpha18 AIs and players might have to take it in turns to attack squares on the overworld.

    This means AI cant interupt until an invasion has ended. Then it is the other forces who attack while you must defend. It is their turn. etc.

    Yeah, I thought that something like this might work. There are a couple of scenarios that I imagine:

    1. AI (or player) wants to reinforce an active battle with units from a neighbouring square. In this case, the units can just stream in.
    2. The AI wants to start a new battle while there is already an active battle. In this case, the time at which the new battle is supposed to start would be recorded. After the first battle finishes, then time-space “rewinds” back to the start and location of the second battle, and all of the activity in the square of the first battle is frozen until the time of the second battle reaches the time at which the first one ended.

    The problem with all of this is that you need some sort of indication of the start and the end of a battle. In the current single-map system, you can control and release units at will. I would suggest that, in the campaign mission, any time there is a hostile unit in a square that is owned by the player, or vice versa, that the player should be forced into unit control mode

    #4737
    Keeperman
    Participant

    Games like civilisation, chess and risk use turned based strategy.

    You have 1 battle and choose the troops you wish to attack with. The battle must then be resolved win/lose and casualties. Then your turn ends and the next player has a turn at attacking.

    While the battle takes place all other players and units are idle.

    A more complex model for later releases?

    #4739
    Keeperman
    Participant

    Ah. I see your point. Each invasion would have to wind back the game clock to the start of the round. A round starts when someone invades someone else.

    #4741
    Keeperman
    Participant

    Maybe the game clock should just keep running?

    #4743
    Keeperman
    Participant

    If you want to start an invasion when there is already one going on, could be hard cheese. It’s not your turn.

Viewing 15 posts - 16 through 30 (of 35 total)
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 PLAYERS SAID

There are no other games out there like KeeperRL. The game is a unique mixture of management, levelling, crafting, constructing, exploring, adventure etc. […] The possibility of interacting with other’s players monumental dungeons turn KeeperRL into one of the most promising games I’ve found.

dbvel

This game is amazing! It’s challenging, fun, unique, and exactly what you might expect it to be. For an early access game it’s incredible. And the thought that there’s more to come thrills me! I can’t wait to see how this awesome game will develop even more.

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Any time I touch another race, I get bent over like a cheap, overworked sex worker. I love sucking at this game so much.

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