Home Forums News Upcoming gameplay changes, part II: combat

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  • #6858

    The previous blog post about progression has stirred a lot of discussion, and I want to follow up a little bit, before I go into the main topic of thi
    [See the full post at: Upcoming gameplay changes, part II: combat]

    #6868

    Naur
    Participant

    About progression:

    If we are going to win technology’s by defeating bosses (something that I think can make the game progression better) maybe we don’t really need a “resource” at all: Maybe when we win a prompt can open up with a technology tree and 2 “free” points that can be used to unlock 2 techs from it.

    If it needs to be more role play-oriented the bosses or final area could hold “ancient tech/magic books” that can be read/spent to win those 2 points.

    That would leave the mana resource for other things, like the ones already implemented (and maybe some future ones like world changing rituals?) and make it clearer, as mana is normally portrayed as magic energy and not always related to research.

    About combat:

    Personally, I like combat systems that are more randomized (with misses or even better: dmg values that vary -like, for example, an ogre who can deal from 3 to 8 dmg-) because they add a little more strategy (do I use the weaker but accurate attack/creature and risk the battle last longer or the stronger one that can 1-hit it?) and the need to adapt to bad (or good) “rolls” and situations. (They are like spice: too much and they ruin your game, but a little gives it flavor)

    But I think the changes go in hand with the “minimalist” approach that you want for the game on the simulation part and can even be balanced on interesting ways. ( for example: melee has more damage, ranged damage depends on arrow quality -making the best real costly-, and magic can be limited by cool-down or even casting time)

    PS: Civ system looks interesting!

    #6869

    red_kangaroo
    Participant

    Interesting to hear about these changes!

    I presume the elemental damage types (fire, poison etc.) are still in game? That would be a shame to loose. It’s more fun when a dragon breathes fire than when it breathes ranged damage. 😉

    How will other spells than those with direct damage be influenced by increased magic damage? Will it have no effect? Will eg. teleportation go farther, healing restore more HP or stun last longer for casters with high magic damage?

    How exactly does damage and defense interact? Is a random amount of damage up to defense blocked, or does it work otherwise? I assume you don’t subtract the whole defense from every attack, because then high defense monsters would be untouchable. I also like some randomness in combat, but if defense is randomized, then that’s enough for me. 🙂

    I’m not sure how I feel about all attacks always hitting. I always liked fragile, but fast and nimble combat style/units. Maybe attacks would not normally miss, but each monster could have a chance to sidestep the attack, moving to random adjacent tile (a bit like Dwarf Fortress does for dodging)? This would make unarmored/fragile speedster builds possible, plus you could try to lure the speedster into an area where it has no free tile to dodge, thus all your attacks would actually hit.

    I really like the new health bar! I just hope we will still get some limbs flying reasonably often, that was always quite fun, even if you were on the receiving end. 😛

    #6870

    Bas Testerink
    Participant

    I’m especially looking forward to the new combat mechanics. When attacking an elven village in the current version you immediately lose track of what’s happening since all your units run off in the forest chasing elves.

    #6871

    If we are going to win technology’s by defeating bosses (something that I think can make the game progression better) maybe we don’t really need a “resource” at all: Maybe when we win a prompt can open up with a technology tree and 2 “free” points that can be used to unlock 2 techs from it.

    Statues and throne will also use the same resource as technology, so it makes sense to keep it as a resource. Otherwise good idea though.

    If it needs to be more role play-oriented the bosses or final area could hold “ancient tech/magic books” that can be read/spent to win those 2 points.

    At some point maybe I’ll try to come up with a more role play-oriented story, but it’s not that easy, for example giant ants normally wouldn’t have books in their hive 🙂

    I presume the elemental damage types (fire, poison etc.) are still in game? That would be a shame to loose. It’s more fun when a dragon breathes fire than when it breathes ranged damage.

    Yes they are, and later on I’ll try to incorporate them better in the combat. Right now there aren’t really fire or poison based direct attacks.

    How will other spells than those with direct damage be influenced by increased magic damage? Will it have no effect? Will eg. teleportation go farther, healing restore more HP or stun last longer for casters with high magic damage?

    Right now only one new spell, magic missile, uses the new magic damage attribute. For other non-combat spells I’ll probably make the cooldowns dependent on the attribute, I’m not sure yet.

    How exactly does damage and defense interact? Is a random amount of damage up to defense blocked, or does it work otherwise? I assume you don’t subtract the whole defense from every attack, because then high defense monsters would be untouchable. I also like some randomness in combat, but if defense is randomized, then that’s enough for me.

    It’s a simple formula: assuming no buffs, to do any damage you need to hit with more than 2/3 of the victims defense. If the damage and defense are equal, then 1/5 of health is subtracted, and if you hit with more than double the defense then it’s an insta-kill. It seems to be working well, but also very easy to modify if there is such need.

    I’m not sure how I feel about all attacks always hitting. I always liked fragile, but fast and nimble combat style/units. Maybe attacks would not normally miss, but each monster could have a chance to sidestep the attack, moving to random adjacent tile (a bit like Dwarf Fortress does for dodging)? This would make unarmored/fragile speedster builds possible, plus you could try to lure the speedster into an area where it has no free tile to dodge, thus all your attacks would actually hit.

    I can do something like that later on. I assume that the speedster needs to do a dodge move ahead of the attack?

    I really like the new health bar! I just hope we will still get some limbs flying reasonably often, that was always quite fun, even if you were on the receiving end.

    Of course 🙂

    I’m especially looking forward to the new combat mechanics. When attacking an elven village in the current version you immediately lose track of what’s happening since all your units run off in the forest chasing elves.

    Yeah, it really improves the combat experience.

    #6889

    Bas Testerink
    Participant

    I’ve played a bit the beta version with the new combat system. Having the option for the full control mode improves (my) combat experiences a lot, since you’re less likely to lose your favorite unit and can make more use of exploration and/or fodder units. E.g., having two bats block a tunnel for enemy reinforcements for two turns while your orcs beat up a dwarf can really make a difference.

    The new mana system is great! It improves the strategic progression of the game a lot.

    #6892

    Great! What do you think about the current mana payouts and costs? Is the balance ok?

    * 200 for main villain
    * 100 for lesser villain
    * 50 for minor settlements
    * 100 per technology
    * 50 per +1 population

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